LittleRefluxers

My baby Darragh is 10 weeks this week and last Thursday he started Neocate food on the advice of a Paediatrician. He has Silent reflux. Never brought up his bottles before but had terrible pain from the acid. He was prescrbed Zantac which he has been on for 4 weeks and his screaming episodes stopped although he was still very uncomfortable after his feed I put him on a comfort food which seemed to settle him a bit more but he was no way settled as much as he should have been. I was soexcited to start the neocate and see a difference. He started this last Thursday and the first few bottles he took he brought them back up immediately. I thought he may need Gaviscon as the other food he had been on was much thicke, he had also been using a thicker feed for the comfort food so I switched back to a newborn teat also. Gave him the Gaviscon and he has since been keeping them down. Just today he has has a dirty nappy after every bottle, 5 dirty nappies today and is very uncomfortable after his feeds still.
Basically I am wondering is this normal at the beginning until he gets used to it or should I be switching his food right away.I know that he has more wind aswell but heard this is normal at the beginning so hopefully this will go as he is crying with wind also. How long should this last?
Also, The guideline on the tin for feeding is very different and much lower than other guidelines on regular baby food, Im wondering is there a reason for this?? Darragh started on taking only 3 ounces sometimes only 2 and falling asleep and now its gone to the point where I dont know if he is hungry stiill and am afraid to give more incase it drives his reflux mad.
 
Also just to note, it seems to be hard to get advice from GPs, pharmacists etc on this food specifically. One nurse told me it is a very thick food and use the bigger teat when I did this he could not keep the bottles down. People seem to be guessing!  I know you may not be able to advise me on all of this but any advice I could get would be much appreciated.

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I think neocate is a thinner food... I think also that you do have to give its little time but there will be others on here with better knowledge of it than me as I have only just put my 8 months old on to it. There is a Facebook page on neocate which I think has advisors from neocate company. Sorry not to be of much help. Veronica

Hi Joy - welcome to LR. You are posting in the right place. Neocate is thin in texture so you may need to continue thickening it with either Gaviscon or Carobel. It also takes some time for the digestive system to adjust as it's broken down into very small molecules. It seems to cause increased wind, green poos and some discomfort initially for a lot of babies. This should settle down if you persevere with it.

Can't comment on the feeding guidelines but hopefully Nutricia will help you with this.

There's a great book on reflux I recommend to all newbies called Colic Solved. One of the most useful tips I took away from it was the need to be patient when you make changes. The analogy used was steering an ocean liner, you change direction on the bridge but it takes a while for the ship to swing around. If your little one is CMPI then there will be some damage to the gut from exposure over the last few months and it will take time to settle down. You need to be thinking in terms of weeks to see the improvements from the changes you've made. I know it's hard when your LO is in pain and you just want everything better quickly.

Hang in there. Jen xx

Thanks you somuch for your replies. I wasatmy wits end tryna get answers from the GP, pharmacy and couldnot get through to the paediatrician since last Thursday.Both replies have helped so much.

Veronica,hopeit works for your 8 month old.

Jenny,you seem toknow your stuff :) thats the most info I got regarding CMPI and any damage done to the gut, i did not know this and even this alone has given me some relief that maybe this needs time to clear up etc..

Today is the first day since Darragh was born, he has slept all day and is smiling since he woke this morning. I hopethis is a turn around!!!! This site has been great for me,thank you both again for responses. X

Welcome Joy!  My little boy also had diahrroea for the first 4/5 days on neocate and increased wind and very smelly poos.  He did settle down so do stick with it.  Not sure why the feeding guidelines are different, but actually I always found that Harry didn't take the amounts recommended on the regular formulas.  I think the recommendations are more to do with ensuring baby gets sufficient nutrients for their age rather than being linked to appetite?  But then every baby is different, so I wouldn't worry too much unless milk intake drops drastically.  I try to look at milk intake over a week rather than 1 day as they do vary sometimes with days where they are less hungry than others.  He might pick up again once his gut settles down.

x

Joy, when you say neocate food, you do mean neocate LCP milk powder don't you? Not the sachets of neocate spoon.
On the milk powder everything you talk about is normal. Counter intuitively i have stopped thickening it, as i think the tickeners can be more of a hinderence than a help, the vomiting does settle as the reflux comes under control but like everything it can take a few days to adjust when you stop using them. I think you get a better bowel habit without them.
If they have given you the neocate spoon sachets, stop giving it, he is too young as it is an incomplete food.
Best wishes for a big improvement.
Xxx

Thank you all so much for your replies, I have taken and learned something from all of them and hope you all and your LOs are well. XXX

 

Darragh was sent back to the hosp to be admitted bythe GP on the Neocate the other day, he went back to when he was 2 weeks old arching the back fussing and wriggling when feeding and actually  bringing up the bottles with or without gaviscon it was all a mess( He never brought up bottles before, he has silentreflux). He seemed to be really hungry and it got to the point where i did not know if he was hungry or in pain anymore, the grunting and groaning all came back.

I saw 2 paediatricians in the hosp on the same day. ! told me to keep him on the Neocate and up the Zantac, i explained the zantac had already been increased by the GP aswell. He then told me go back to C & G Comfort, I got really annoyed at this point saying you took him off it saying he should be much more settled then he is on it so why are you telling me go back on it????

He told me not to go on Enfamil AR as he didnt like Darragh being put on a new food again, The 2nd Paed came in and told me not to put him back on the comfort but try him on EnfamilAR. Im so confused and angry over the whole thing in themeantime a little baby as you all well prob went through! Is in pain and is literally going days without sleep! I feel like I could faint any minute with tiredness. When does this ever get better! Am i doing something small wrong? Things seem to be going backwards. Darragh is now on the Enfamil AR. He stopped wriggling and grunting when taking his feed on it which is great hes much more relaxed but just tonight again he had an hour of screaming and criedso much he lost his breath. He then took his next feed and it was gone it about 5 minutes I noticed the nipple was ripped and the food was flowing quicker! He has now conked out and is fast asleep for the last hour! Im really sorry for the long post guys but every time i think it willget better it gets worse. Do any of you know what teats to use for a thicker food? He seems to take it now prob with the level 2 flow teat dr brownes but i just noticed with this teat he conked after it. Im so annoyed the hosp told me im over feeding him, i never feed him outside of the 4/5 ounces every 4 hours. Docs say its too much the Healthnurse said he can take up to 30 but whatever i give him he still cries the minute i take the bottle out of his mouth! Im soooo confused .

Oh Joy poor you and your son :((( so many of us on here can relate to what you're going through :( it's so exhausting, stressful and seemingly unending eh? You must be exhausted. It's soooo rubbish the confusing and conflicting advice you've been given by the Drs. Sadly it doesn't surprise me, often I feel they're guessing again sadly at the expense of the comfort of a small baby :( i think you're doing soo well if it's any consolation. Just look at it this way, even though you feel you're muddling through, you're doing everything you can to get answers and find the best way forward to try and make sure he's fed AND as comfortable as possible. What a lucky boy he is to have his Mummy fighting his corner :)
I always found the variflow teats were helpful. Let it out fast if the baby sucked hard and slower if he didn't - baby led so to speak. I am unsure as to why they're saying you're over feeding with only 5 ish oz bottles. If it was me (and this is just my opinion) I would be tempted to let him have as much as he wants especially if he seems hungry and wants it, and can keep it down and then manages to sleep. Good luck keep up the good work :)
Neocate can take time to see an improvement, I have been advised by people on here up to 6-8 weeks however most people see a difference before that. I have also been advised that they do get worse on neocate before they get better. Have u tried using carobel to thicken the feeds? I tried gaviscon previously and found it didn't work as well as the carobel. I have put my LO back on neocate yesterday as I saw a paed consultant who said he has milk intolerance. He was previously on neocate but because just like urself he got worse I took him off and put him on a thickened formula - Sma staydown. Then started to notice mucus in stools which is another indicator of an intolerance. Have you asked ur gp for omprazole? It's the next step up with regards to medication for reflux.
Hope this helps. I know exactly how you feel, none of the medics seem to care and as a midwife myself I am very very disappointed. 
Big hugs
Katie x
And no I don't think 4/5 ounces is too much every 4 hours. What's his weight and age? X

personally, I would go back to the neocate but thicken it with carobel, not gaviscon.  You will need a fast flow teat for it though.  The good thing is you can make it as thick as you like.  I don't think Gaviscon thickens that much. 

Does your LO take a dummy?  If so, try putting the dummy in straight after his feed.  When my LO was that age, he wanted to still suck because I think it soothed him but didn't necessarily need the milk.  Just a thought if you did want to try feeding less but more often.  If he doesn't want the dummy and is still distressed he prob is still hungry.

x

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